Belinda [00:00:02]:
Good morning, JP, and welcome to the Motorsport Coaching podcast.
J.P [00:00:06]:
I'm excited to be here. This is going to be a lot of fun.
Belinda [00:00:09]:
It is. You're a little bit different. You're not coming from a motorsport background, which is fantastic. Tell us a little bit about you and how did you yeah, tell us a bit about you.
J.P [00:00:20]:
Yeah, so, for me, my sport was basketball. Growing up, I was got to fairly high level in the States, there Division One level, but I got into coaching, spent about ten years in coaching and then moved into where I started coaching coaches, because I got a coach for me ten years into my coaching journey and it was really impactful, really helpful. I had to make some changes in the way that I was leading my athletes and that change just sparked this fire in me, to write about it, to talk about it, to start a podcast, and then eventually start to coach coaches as well. So been doing that for almost ten years now and written a few books around team culture, how to do that in a very systematic way. Two years ago, I had the book The Culture System come out and that really talked about a framework for building team culture. But when you think about a culture as a system, there's a lot of different parts to a system, and one of those is parents. And so that's my more recent book, is just how do we engage parents? Just another part of the team to really support the athlete and the team experience. So been doing that for the last ten years and just working with coaches and occasionally working with their teams as well.
Belinda [00:01:31]:
And why did you feel like it was important to introduce parents into the system of it? Did you think that it was always like a negative experience? And like you said, you've been around it for like, ten years. What were you seeing in order for you to think, hey, A, there's a book there, and B, this is a focus I want to concentrate on.
J.P [00:01:50]:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the parents are the most influential people in an athlete's life, and so for coaches or managers or trainers or anybody, if you want to have an impact on the athlete, you have to engage the parents. Right. The problem is, parents struggle. Like, parenting is our hardest job and it's not our only job. So parents have a lot going on and how they navigate, supporting their child, they're always just doing the best they can with what they know. But there's a lot of missteps, there's a lot of mistakes along the way. I've got some young kids already and I know I'm not making mistakes, and so it's just what we can do by working with the coach, we have to first help the coach or to get over some of those negative experiences, because there have been, there's been these complaining parents that come at them.
J.P [00:02:39]:
And I've had some experiences myself with some pretty volatile parents as a coach. But getting over that and recognizing the majority of parents are all very well intentioned. They just want what's best for their athlete was, to me, really inspiring to say, hey, I need to come up with more practical ways that coaches can build this partnership with the parents. Because that's what you're trying to do, is build a partnership. And so that's what really inspired the book.
Belinda [00:03:07]:
Was it that you used to get yelled at ten years ago?
J.P [00:03:12]:
Oh, man, I've got some crazy stories. I've got a few drunken voicemails left from parents over the years. Speaking of, I was coaching basketball. It wasn't motorsports, but I had a parent almost run me off the road in their car. And I talk about that in the book. It was a crazy, crazy moment where a parent was really wanting to have that parent meeting and pulled their car right in front of me and got out. And there were some words said, and I was fortunate. I mean, I remained calm at all, but I was just more in shock that this parent was really upset with me, especially after I'd coached his son for years.
J.P [00:03:50]:
And he was really challenging me, and he was critical of me because I had disciplined his son in a way that he didn't like. I stood my ground. I did it in a respectful way. Years later, that dad a month later, not even a month later, a few weeks later, I learned that that dad was going through some stuff himself. Lost his job, got kicked out of his house from his wife. His son wasn't even talking to him at the time, and he was going through some tough stuff. And then years later, I still got a message, I think six or seven years later, that dad texted me and said, thanks for coaching my son. You're the best coach he ever had.
J.P [00:04:25]:
Never apologized for trying to run me off the road, but best coach my son's ever had. He was very quick to thank me. Seven or eight years later, wow.
Belinda [00:04:36]:
Well, our motorsport parents are very passionate. Obviously, they've got that financial burden as well to throw in. And so we're having coaches, and there's a lot of expenses to having a motorsport athlete as a child. And so, yes, without a doubt, there will be definitely some stories about irate parents going around again with their child's heart at the best point of it all, but some crazy people. I have seen some different things, but you have just written a book called The Sports Parent Solution. Tell us a bit about that and why did you feel you needed to write that book?
J.P [00:05:13]:
Yeah, that came right after my last book, where I'd been talking about the culture system, and this was the missing component that I actually intentionally left out of that book. Because I knew that this needed a whole other book. How do coaches, how do administrators, how do people engage parents of the athletes in a way that's healthy, creates that partnership so that we can work with the most influential person in the athlete's life in a way that's benefiting them? Inspired through my own experiences, no doubt, and inspired by the work that I've had and the success we've had with coaches at a lot of different levels. Right. So all the way from Collegiate Division One down to youth level, we've done so many really amazing things in teams, in programs and clubs to engage the parents, to actually obviously the goal was to help the athlete and also to help the team experience with a lot of the stuff that I work with. But what we found over the last few years was not only was the athlete experience improved, their performance improved, but the relationship between the athlete and the parent improved. I think that's probably what's one of the most powerful things about what we do with so many of my clients and our work is that we're actually helping in many cases, to repair sometimes ruptured relationships that happen through the sporting context. Parents want to be supportive.
J.P [00:06:45]:
They push, they challenge, they encourage their kids. Sometimes they don't respond the best way. We don't do it the best way as a parent, but the coach can actually come in and help just to bring it back to, well, why are we doing this? And what do we hope to gain out of this experience and really bring it back to what's most important?
Belinda [00:07:05]:
And do you come from a sports psychology background, JP, or is this just from experience and education and research and interviewing other coaches?
J.P [00:07:15]:
Yeah, I studied sports psychology and physical education at the university level. And when I got into coaching, and then years later, I did my leadership coaching certification through Georgetown University. So just my ability to coach coaches, to coach individuals, to coach even different people out there, parents, whatever it be, just get on those calls, those things, and help them to discover what's important for them, help them to get back to what they want to achieve, just to partner with them. That's kind of where my focus has been the last few years.
Belinda [00:07:50]:
What are some tips when it comes to about building partnerships with parents and athletes?
J.P [00:07:57]:
Yeah, so one of the biggest tips, I'd say early on is just making sure if you're in an organization, whether you're a coach, manager, leader, parent, I think the end of the day, when it comes to best supporter athletes, we need to see everyone in that team that's surrounding that athlete as a person. And I think so often coaches see that as Johnny's parent. Right. Parents see that as Johnny's coach. They don't see that as JP. Right. And I don't see that as whatever the parent name is. Bob.
J.P [00:08:37]:
Right. So it's really about, first off, can we see the person as well and the fact that they have needs, they have goals, they have challenges just as legitimate as our own. So so much of it comes down to mindset. I call it an outward mindset. Inward is when I see people as problems. I see people as obstacles. I see them as vehicles or irrelevant to my own success, right? So if I move outward, I see them as a person and so I get curious about them. That will change all my interactions.
J.P [00:09:05]:
And people sense our way of being towards them. So the first thing I'd say is the biggest tip is make sure your mindset towards people is correct, especially the sports parent or the parent towards the coach, recognizing that all people are people. And then when we move into that, the next thing is just early conversations. What do those early conversations look like? It's so often are we asking great questions? We need to come in there and be asking great questions to be curious, to help not just us learn, but even that parent or the coach learn, but we're kind of asking them to reflect on what's most important to them. And so some questions and I love to ask parents early on in that coach parent relationship dynamic, is what's most important to you about your son or your daughter participating in this sport? What do you hope they get out of this experience? What are some areas of growth that they have as a person and what are some of your biggest concerns for them in their life at this point? And really try to bring it back to the athlete, not just in their sport, but the athlete as a person and get the focus there. And so questions like that, when we're asking those questions and those early conversations, they set a tone of, hey, this is something more than just about performance and results and the athlete. I have genuine concern for the individual that we're trying to partner together to support.
Belinda [00:10:32]:
Fantastic. So within the book, what do you actually go through in the sports parent solution?
J.P [00:10:38]:
Yeah, so there's kind of four parts. One is all about philosophy as a leader that we should have or as an individual, just making sure that we're a modeling the behaviors that we want from our athletes that we want from the other parents or from, if I'm a parent, what I would want the coach to be modeling as well. So, so much is around our philosophy and our behaviors and that's kind of at the core of the whole system that we talk about here. And it's a systematic approach to addressing sports parents is what I outline in the book. The next outside of that core, you've got established support and force is our flywheel and how do we establish those partnerships? And so we establish them through relationships and through early meetings so if you have a large group or a club that coach administrators needs to sit down on the parents and they need to have conversations around the vision, the philosophy, how we do things here, why we do it in this way here. What's the best kind of setting some boundaries, but also allow room for connection people to get to know each other. If you're in a club, you got different parents. You want parents to know other parents, you want parents to know the other kids.
J.P [00:11:50]:
When you create that type of environment where parents are getting to know other parents and parents getting to know their kids, they're a part of a club, they're part of a team, they're going to be more likely to support each other than rather just being about just their kid and what their kid needs to achieve. So establishing that partnership from the beginning and then supporting continuous communication. Every time a coach that I work with meets with an athlete in a formal conversation, talk about roles, playing time, whatever, it be like their performance development plans, which are very big for the coaches that I work with. They need to follow up with the parent. Hey, this is what I love about coaching your child. Or maybe this is some things that we discussed that he or she is struggling in, that we're going to continue to encourage him to grow in these things. So just this consistent communication, whether it's through weekly emails, not just schedules, but really like, what are we really trying to develop in these young people? What are the skills, what are the character skills, not just the technical skills that we're working on that week or those last couple of weeks in practice. And then the last piece of that flywheel is the enforce.
J.P [00:12:54]:
How do we establish boundaries where we give parents or other adults feedback on their behavior and how it might be perceived and how it might be potentially impacting the athlete and preventing what we're trying to achieve. And also really just kind of essentially setting some boundaries here and consequences for when parents potentially do cross those lines. Yeah, they're paying or to be a part of that club or part of that team, but we still have a duty and a responsibility as a coach or administration or organization to protect the athletes and to protect the culture, to protect the environment so that it's safe and healthy for everyone.
Belinda [00:13:34]:
Fantastic. I love it. Where can we get the book from?
J.P [00:13:39]:
Yeah, it's available on Amazon just alongside my last book, The Culture System. Both are really great for culture and leadership. So you get on Amazon or you can go to my website tocculture.com and you'll see links to all the books there.
Belinda [00:13:55]:
Fantastic. Well, I do want to know about the first book because I still think it's very relevant because obviously a lot of the parents either A, go into a team environment or B, they set up their own race team. And so very much this point of time of the year with us going into our new race season with a lot of teams being built, we do work around a lot about team building and personalities. I couldn't think of the word there. Dispersionalities it's too early for me. JP dispersionalities and working on how to build actually team environment. So can we go a little bit about that first book that you've got so it's its name and again, what's kind of covered within the book and who's that targeted towards.
J.P [00:14:34]:
Yeah, the culture system subtitles a proven process for creating an extraordinary team culture and similar to the process I just outlined there. But it's just geared around how leaders, organizations, administrators build culture. The cool thing is the amount of people that have read it that are youth coaches, but also there's project managers or they're CEOs or business owners that have used it within their own teams as well. It really goes into walks you through step by step, how to create your own leadership philosophy and then to make sure that you're living according to that philosophy. That's the initial part. One outside of that, we go back to our flywheel, establish support and enforce culture. Culture is standards, it's behaviors, it's how we do things. And then it's also relationships, the connections.
J.P [00:15:21]:
So we measure culture and relationships and behaviors. You can't have really high standards and poor relationships. Like people won't respond to that. And you don't really have strong relationships. If you don't hold people to high standards, they work. It's both high standards and strong relationships. So how do you establish that? There's various ways to establish to co create standards within the team to involve athletes in that process of co creating the standards. There's player development plans to establish individual standards with each athlete based upon what their goals are, what their aspirations are, where they see themselves and what they need to do to close the gap between where they are and where they want to be.
J.P [00:16:00]:
And so we talk a lot about through the book about how to set those player development plans up. Then you go into support. How do you support that? Team cohesion activities, team building types of things. Like you mentioned, personality type stuff, those things are great, but it's also how do we continuously build into those athletes through coaching conversations where we're not telling directing they're ever moving life, but we're guiding them. And so we're just asking a lot of questions to get them to really come up with what they see as the changes they need to make. Reflectives type stuff, effective communications also covered in there, and discipline. And that's our last piece is how do you enforce the standards and reinforce the culture? It all comes down to effective discipline strategies that we've seen to be highly effective in the classroom and also at the home. So we've worked with people like Dr.
J.P [00:16:50]:
J. Nelson of Positive Discipline and Dr. Bruce Perry, the world's leading trauma psychiatrist, to really develop those strategies that best work in a sports place. That a sporting setting which reinforces the idea that practice, training, whatever we call it, it's an opportunity to get better. Being a part of a team, being a driver in a car, it's a privilege. It's not something they're entitled to. And so we want the athletes to appreciate that privilege, that opportunity that they have. And when they do that and they're grateful for that, it drives intrinsic motivation.
J.P [00:17:25]:
So how we discipline oftentimes goes very against that in traditional discipline methods. So the book goes extensively in how to create a system for discipline within your team, your organization, that's going to nurture and not rely on carrots and sticks, fear based motivation to drive behaviors.
Belinda [00:17:46]:
I love it. I want it. Can you get it as an e book as well, JP?
J.P [00:17:51]:
Yeah, e book audiobook. It's available on Audible as well as well.
Belinda [00:17:55]:
Fantastic. Of course, all those links to JP's book will be below in the show. Just yeah, I want to hear all about it actually. I just want to go grab the books and actually read them because I think they sound fantastic. Can you get a bundle for the two?
J.P [00:18:11]:
Yeah. And people, if they want to get a lot of books, they can reach out to me on bulk orders, on discount. They can email me at [email protected].
Belinda [00:18:22]:
Yeah. And so with the Sports Parents delicious book, it is targeted more A for parents and coaches as well, though, isn't it?
J.P [00:18:29]:
Yeah, it's primarily targeted towards coaches, but parents get a lot out of reading it. And we've had a good, great response out of parents that have read it and been like, wow, this helps me to engage the coach. As know, you're very easily able to just flip the script there and work backwards from that.
Belinda [00:18:48]:
Fantastic. I can't wait to go read it. JP, well, thanks for the time today and telling us about your brand new book. Old and new. I feel like there's a third one that could possibly be in the pipeline there.
J.P [00:19:00]:
Yeah. Working on one for athletes, just the role they play. So that's the plan down the line.
Belinda [00:19:09]:
Yes, I can see that beautiful transition and having that beautiful set of trios of targeting all of those in that process. So, congratulations and all well done with the books. I can't wait to read them myself. Before we go today, is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners today regarding the books or regarding parenting and coaching and having relationships, even though you've given us some fantastic tips already.
J.P [00:19:33]:
Yeah, I think what I would leave parents, coaches, whoever's listening with this, is that obviously mental health of young athletes is a big concern today. And parents are the number one influence in an athlete's life. And coaches are typically like number two. And so what we need is we need coaches, managers, trainers and parents to be working together if we really care about our kids, which we do. I know we do. But we've got to get over some of those fears, some of those obstacles, and we just got to get back to athlete centered, focused and just on what their needs are and stuff that's supported with educational type resources, things that have actually been backed up by research. So seeing your podcast, you've got great stuff on. There so much real education for parents out there, which I think is brilliant.
J.P [00:20:35]:
So my big encouragement, I guess, I just leave people with, is just make sure we lean into some maybe uncomfortable relationships. But we do that because it's what's best for our kids.
Belinda [00:20:46]:
Yeah. And you do touch there about mental health, and I don't know where you're based, but over here in Australia, we don't really have a lot around mental health with athletes. Is there a big, I guess, like, organization or education or around mental health with athletes? We seem to have mental health for workers and a lot of other things, but yeah, I haven't come across a lot with athletes.
J.P [00:21:07]:
Yeah, it's definitely growing. But I think my own opinion, which is not just my opinion, but it's like backed by a lot of the research, is that oftentimes coaches and leaders, they feel that even parents, we feel like we have to be therapists or we have to have like, be a psychologist to be able to support our kid today. And what all the research would show is that really what we are. Our role is to create a culture, whether that's in our home or on our team, where people feel seen, known love, they feel connected, and if they can show up and stress is predictable, stress is more moderate and stress is more controllable, then it's going to lead to building resilience. But when we have these really high people endure stress that's extreme, prolonged or severe, then it can lead to some trauma. So when it comes to the mental health of athletes, one of the most important things we can do is just create a place where they know, they come out of training, they feel loved, they come into training, they feel connected to other people on the team, to other people in the group. Doing that does more for the majority of people than therapy does, is what it's been shown. And that comes from Dr.
J.P [00:22:26]:
Bruce Perry is just that's I think that's probably what so many people are craving in a time where there's lots of connection, but there's actually lots of disconnection through social media and the internet like that.
Belinda [00:22:38]:
Yeah, I just find that again once over here more. So maybe that mental health isn't mentioned within athletes until after they've retired and then they tell their story. I feel like there's still a lot of stigma if you are suffering from mental health, but I think you just mentioned it's that disconnect and that connection probably like when they're going to go to training, they might not feel like they've got that connection there. And that's why I probably come back to your first book. That's really important to build those tribes to start off with.
J.P [00:23:08]:
Yeah, absolutely. And you want to have a place where people feel safe to share and open up to somebody. It doesn't necessarily be in some large team setting, right? It's just they have people they can go and go to, they can lean in on during those moments. They feel that really super strong connection. But at the the end of day, the number one thing people really want when they're part of a team is they just want to know they belong, that they know they belong. And if we can create that sense of belonging, we're going to do a lot for our kids.
Belinda [00:23:41]:
You just said about belonging within a team. Sometimes you can't pick your teammates. Is there anything in the book about dealing with people that you don't like working with?
J.P [00:23:50]:
Yeah, absolutely. In many ways some of the stuff for the Sports Parent solution is you may not like your child's coach or you may not like the athlete's parents. Right. How do we get back to a place where we can come in with a little bit more curiosity and a little less judgment? And that's the big thing, is lost strategies around how you engage in difficult conversations. Because when there's people part of the team that you don't like, that you struggle, there's conflict. Avoiding that and just burying that is not healthy. Right? So good teams actually have conflict. It's typically a lot of task conflict, less relational conflict.
J.P [00:24:36]:
But when there is that relational conflict, we have to engage it and work through it. And so it's something I talk a lot about in both books. But it comes down to sitting down, having hard conversations where you just share observations and ask questions and get curious. And I say observations, not judgments. There's a big difference. Observations are hey, I'm noticing this, or I'm seeing this, it looks like this, I could be wrong. So I'm holding those things, those observations lightly. They're not judgments around the person or their character.
J.P [00:25:04]:
They're just, hey, I'm noticing these types of things and just being, hey, what do you think? Or what's true about that? Asking questions, what's your perspective on it, on things and just hearing the other person. So often people just want to be heard. And so if we can do that, we may not be best buddies at the end of it, but hopefully we'll have maybe been able to repair some of that trust that's been broken or the rupture in that relationship and just put it back on stable ground. The funny thing is, the best teams actually aren't the best friends all the time. That's a fact, right? People know that great teams don't have to get up really well off the track or off the court or off the field. That's not actually necessary to great team performance. But trust is, right? Trust is and respect is. So we need those.
Belinda [00:26:00]:
Do you find that the males actually do have those conversations or do you find, like, it's more females driving these types of conversations? I'd just love to hear, obviously motorsports, very male driven and you're saying just to sit down and have a conversation. I was thinking to you, I'd like that, and we obviously promote that, but I'm thinking also men don't kind of work like that. Is there tips and solutions in the book and what are your thoughts?
J.P [00:26:29]:
Yeah, I was just reading some research that came out of I'm forgetting it's like University of Virginia or Penn or something like that, that there's a lot of research, actually that the best teams have women on them largely for some of those reasons. It was so fascinating. It was so strong of evidence. I was like, man, I don't care if I'm coaching a team of young men. I would still always hire a female have somewhere on my staff because multiple, right, like just teams are enhanced or improved through females because females tend to be a little bit more aware and attuned to some of those social dynamics and being more a little more caring towards that. Just a bit of a tendency. Right? You could obviously hire a male that could have a stronger tendency to that. But I would definitely just see it just has a lot of benefit to bringing a female into that.
J.P [00:27:27]:
With men, it really kind of think depends on the situation. I think in a day there needs to be strong leaders in organizations that are helping those conversations to happen. And sometimes the teams that I work with, that's the head coach. Other times I've had conversations where parents reach out to me about issues they're having with their child's team and the coach, and that parent becomes the person that initiates that conversation. In fact, if I look at my own journey as a leader, one of the most impactful conversations I've ever had was when a parent leaned in and gave me feedback around how I was behaving and how it was not aligned with the things that I said I valued and that was really huge for me. So it's definitely not easy, these types of conversations, but we need to have courage, we need to take risks. And I think we tell our athletes a lot, take risks, have courage, let go of fear. And we as adults need to do that as well.
Belinda [00:28:24]:
It I like it. JP, now apart from being an author, what other services do you provide to parents, athletes and coaches?
J.P [00:28:32]:
Yeah, it's my one to one leadership coaching that I. Do, and I do that with sports coaches, and I do that with business owners as well. So some of It's consulting, I've built a lot of tools and systems and strategies to drive culture and team performance. And so I'm just helping them to identify the right tools for them based upon their needs within their team and then apply those and implement those and execute those over time. The other aspect is coaching. And coaching is really partnering. It's partnering with individuals. As coaches in the ICF certified coaching world, coaches believe that the individual is their expert on their life and what's important to them.
J.P [00:29:16]:
So just partnering with them to identify what the things are that they want to work with and being someone that helps them to take different perspectives, step back from situations that might be a little bit heated and regain perspective and focus there. So I work as a leadership coach. I have a podcast on culture called Coaching Culture Podcast as well.
Belinda [00:29:38]:
Okay, we'll have to put that link down, Coaching Culture, and sign up, subscribe and listen to that, definitely. I love all this sort of content. So, again, JP, thank you very much for your time and bringing us awareness around those two fantastic books. Again, those links will be in the Show Notes as well as all details to follow. JP, socially, where can people find you? What are your preferred platforms?
J.P [00:30:03]:
Yeah, it's on Twitter at JP nerbin Nerbun. And then Instagram is at TOC culture.
Belinda [00:30:13]:
Beautiful. And again, those two links will be in today's Show Notes. JP, thank you very much for your time and sharing your knowledge with us. Anything else to finish off today? Anything I didn't ask that you want to tell us about?
J.P [00:30:28]:
No, I think it's just great what you're doing and just encourage, you know, providing these resources for parents and for drivers and people that are trying to support athletes, I think is just so valuable. So best of luck to you.
Belinda [00:30:42]:
Fantastic. Thanks again, JP. We'll make sure we'll get you onto the show once you've released the third book.
J.P [00:30:50]:
Sounds good.
Belinda [00:30:51]:
Fantastic, thanks.
